Travel Mapping

Highway Data Discussion => In-progress Highway Systems & Work => Topic started by: si404 on April 16, 2016, 02:36:18 pm

Title: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: si404 on April 16, 2016, 02:36:18 pm
(work in progress)
Phase 1 (tier 1/2):Phase 2 (international systems):

Phase 3 (national systems - incomplete list):
Phase 4 (national state/provincial/territorial systems - incomplete list)
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread
Post by: michih on April 16, 2016, 04:04:59 pm
Algeria is not Asia-Pacific ;)
Sri Lanka is missing.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP)
Post by: panda80 on July 14, 2017, 07:27:07 am
Thailand? I have some mileage there...
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP)
Post by: si404 on July 14, 2017, 10:46:32 am
Thailand? I have some mileage there...
As do I, but mine is not clinch-able yet (and is unlikely to be this decade). You can preview Asian Highways in Thailand, however, and add any mileage there.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: michih on January 28, 2018, 05:34:00 am
Are there any national systems ready for peer-review? Which are less painful, e.g. only routes with numbered exits like korex?
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: Duke87 on February 12, 2018, 01:09:16 am
If no one has taken on Australia I could start working on that next (now that Iceland is "done").

It should definitely be split into subregions, though.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: si404 on February 12, 2018, 05:41:51 am
I believe Bickendan made a start by drafting Highway 1. For that reason, I didn't begin drafting the system to keep me awake* while listening to the Ashes this winter (though I was glad I slept through most of the humilating parts). I plan on working on NZL state highways to keep me awake during the 2-test series in late March.

Sub-regions for Australia are set up already.

One big problem with this system is that they have transitioned to alphanumeric numbering, but Western Australia isn't doing it and Northern Territory is still in transitioning. ACT doesn't generally number its roads. Also status isn't linked to number and the prefixes on the alphanumeric numbering change with status (M, A, B) so routes might be many files just because some parts are freeway, other parts aren't, some parts receive national funding (and are thus 'National Highway'), others don't (but are still part of the national network as 'National Routes'). It's all a bit of a mess.

*when play is through the night UK time.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: si404 on February 12, 2018, 06:48:58 am
This is the most annoying thing from what I can make out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_in_Australia#Route_numbering_systems

Basically other than ACT and NSW doing stuff the same, every state and territory does things differently. Some keep special shields for National Highways, others have special shields for each type of route, some have no shields.

Ideally this would be the split, but the other stuff complicates it and this format would have issues in any state:
Motorways (roads with M prefixes) - tier 1
National Highways (roads with A prefixes) - tier 3 (continental system)
National Routes (roads with B prefixes) - tier 4 (national system)
State Routes - tier 5 (subnational system)

However it really doesn't work like that. Most states have National Routes as A roads (occasionally A or B, depending on how they feel) without the special shields (or with different shields) that National Highways have. NSW/ACT doesn't seem to have any distinction between the two systems.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: michih on February 12, 2018, 01:15:49 pm
If no one has taken on Australia I could start working on that next (now that Iceland is "done").

What's about peer-reviews? We currently have 60(!) systems in preview.

Talking about Asia-Pacific, I thought about reviewing index and jpne next. You could review chng or asiahr et cetera. There are also some systems in USA/CAN (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2360.msg8920#msg8920) and Europe left...

And there's already an Australia thread (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=176).
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: Duke87 on February 12, 2018, 09:09:59 pm
If someone has already claimed it I won't step on their toes - the OP suggested it was unclaimed.

WRT peer review... you have a point, although I hesitate to go reviewing routes in a jurisdiction I have little familiarity with. Let me dig through and see what systems need review that no one has claimed.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: michih on February 13, 2018, 12:58:48 pm
If someone has already claimed it I won't step on their toes - the OP suggested it was unclaimed.

The OP indicates the official HB status but Bickendan has not yet submitted any file... I think you should ask Bickendan if he still wants to develop the system or if he can upload the files to GitHub and you can go ahead with drafting routes.

btw: I don't claim chng nor asiahr ;)

WRT peer review... you have a point, although I hesitate to go reviewing routes in a jurisdiction I have little familiarity with. Let me dig through and see what systems need review that no one has claimed.

According to what is indicated on the site....

Quote
Some experienced users volunteer to help the project. If this interests you, start by reporting problems with existing highway data. Those who have learned the project's structure and highway data rules and guidelines can help greatly by providing review of new highway systems in development. Highly experienced users can learn how to plot new highway systems under the guidance of experienced contributors.

;)
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: Duke87 on February 13, 2018, 08:56:57 pm
Yes I've read that passage before. Maybe I'm taking this more seriously than others, but I see peer reviewing a system as not merely checking for things like that waypoint labeling follows guidelines or that intersections line up - but also as doing a thorough check that the routes in the HB match what is signed in the field / what is officially correct on paper as applicable.

I wouldn't even know where to begin doing that kind of check on chng since I have never been to China, I can't read Chinese writing, and there is no GMSV in China. I could check that what's drafted matches Google Maps or OSM, but I can't check it against primary sources and therefore cannot vouch for its accuracy. Would prefer someone more familiar with China handle (I recognize we may not have any such person "on staff").

I'm reviewing zafn and comfortable doing that because although I have never been to South Africa either, there is GMSV of all the major roads and the signs are all in English (although for this purpose I'd be fine with any language using the Latin alphabet and could swing Greek or Cyrillic if need be). This is sufficient for me to be reasonably confident that what I am signing off on is an accurate representation of reality on the ground.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: si404 on February 14, 2018, 07:48:24 am
Would prefer someone more familiar with China handle (I recognize we may not have any such person "on staff").
We don't AFAICS - it's one of many reasons why the system isn't ready for review, even though it's in preview (note that Michael!). I drafted routes to the best of my ability, but I was reliant on finding a latin-alphabet map service for word-based name labels (thankfully most were exit numbers or numbered routes).

That, and the snapshot of routes is about 3 winters out of date, so there's going to be about 10,000km not included...  :P

I've not been keeping Japan up-to-date (there's not much to add there though - more like 100km), and the Philippines had so much conflicting information that I just picked one set and stuck with it - it looks like I will have to revisit that system and redo it now more information is available.

---

zaf's fine for review. Though it will probably be quite a bit of work as I didn't check to see whether road numbers are signed (often just glad to have a point I could label!), and various routes are very long. It was quite a tedious system to create in places.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: michih on February 14, 2018, 12:47:10 pm
(note that Michael!)

Hard to know when there is no info and no response...................
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: michih on February 14, 2018, 01:13:49 pm
but I can't check it against primary sources

I think our primary source is OSM, isn't it?
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: yakra on February 14, 2018, 03:14:50 pm
I think our primary source is OSM, isn't it?
I think that by "primary sources", Duke87 means sources direct from the government agencies responsible for the highways -- or as close as we can get to that.
OSM itself can be pretty unreliable in places, Manitoba being a notable example.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: Duke87 on February 14, 2018, 10:12:46 pm
but I can't check it against primary sources

I think our primary source is OSM, isn't it?

I'm using the academic definition of "primary source" here - i.e. the source material for the facts, not a second-hand account of them.

So no, OSM is not a primary source, it is a secondary source. An official DOT map is a primary source since it's published by the agency that maintains the roads. An official route log is also a primary source for the same reason. And while GMSV is technically a secondary source, we trust that their pictures of signs posted in the field (the signs themselves are primary sources) are not altered so as to change what they say.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: michih on February 15, 2018, 01:40:19 pm
Ok, thanks!
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: michih on August 28, 2019, 02:15:50 pm
Am I right that
- ausm - Australia Motorways
- asiahr - UNESCAP / ASEAN Asian Highways (for review)
- nzlsh - New Zealand State Highways

are ready for review?

I could do nzlsh since I already reviewed nzlmot 2 years ago.
Anyone interested in ausm or asiahr?
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: si404 on August 28, 2019, 03:43:19 pm
You'll also want to do the tourist routes at the same time when looking at NZ.

Australia's main routes (M, A, NH) are ready for review.

Japan is after Italy in my regions to clean up.

The Asian Highways I'll just go through at some point (v low priority) as no one else is bothered with them.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: michih on August 28, 2019, 03:56:06 pm
You'll also want to do the tourist routes at the same time when looking at NZ.

It's missing on the list though ;)

Australia's main routes (M, A, NH) are ready for review.

NH? You mean ausn? And ausnb? Please gimme some chocolate first :P However, I'm also happy if anyone else wants to review one or all Australian systems. I think that I won't do it "soon" - not in 2019.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: michih on August 29, 2019, 01:42:07 pm
Ok, nzlsh is mine but Australian systems are still t.b.d. - too much chocolate at once makes you fat :D
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: Duke87 on August 31, 2019, 08:37:53 pm
I'll go ahead and take on review of Australia - should certainly be able to have that done before year's end.
Title: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: michih on October 18, 2019, 03:07:16 pm
Should we add Tajikistan to the UNECE or to the UNESCAP / ESCWA overview thread?

The system is already active (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?sys=tjkrb).

A UNECE list (http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/hlm/prgm/cph/experts/tajikistan/Documents/draft.stateprogram.transport.devt.2010.2025.ru.pdf)* of routes has been posted on SSC. It's signed (https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=163357298&postcount=44). The map (https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=163391262&postcount=49) should be based on the UNECE list. I have not compared whether it's concurrent to our system. We don't indicate our source (http://travelmapping.net/credits.php), I guess it was just wikipedia.

*The document name is "draft.stateprogram.transport.devt.2010.2025"
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: si404 on October 18, 2019, 03:49:55 pm
The map (https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=163391262&postcount=49) should be based on the UNECE list.
It has the RB19 we and OSM have, but isn't on the list.
Quote
I guess it was just wikipedia.
Nope, OSM.
Title: Re: APA 2020 outlook for peer-review
Post by: michih on January 01, 2020, 04:40:55 am
I'm currently peer-reviewing two large European systems. I guess that this should be finished in the first months of the new year. All European systems which are ready for a peer-review and were not developed by me will be peer-reviewed then. Asia has systems which are already quite long in preview and might (or should) be peer-reviewed next.

Tier 1:
2016-04-21;China;chng;China National Expressways;preview - needs a huge revision before being ready for a peer-review due to hundreds of road openings
2016-04-21;India;index;India National Expressways;preview - ready for peer-review ?
2016-05-01;Philippines;phle;Philippines Expressways;preview - was already peer-reviewed (http://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2363)
2017-09-02;Japan;jpne;Japan Expressways;preview - ready for peer-review after clean up

Japan is after Italy in my regions to clean up.

Tier 4:
2017-02-28;Sri Lanka;lkaa;Sri Lanka A Roads;preview - ready for peer-review ?
2017-06-13;Nepal;nplh;Nepal Highways;preview - ready for peer-review ?
2018-07-14;Russia;rusa;Russia Access Roads;preview - to be reviewed together with still in devel rusr system ?

No hurry, there is still time for final checks before releasing the systems for a peer-review.
Title: Re: APA 2020 outlook for peer-review
Post by: si404 on April 08, 2020, 12:53:57 pm
2016-04-21;India;index;India National Expressways;preview - ready for peer-review ?
Needs Japan-style updates. Also need to check numbers of intersecting national highways (per comment made about the numbers not being right in places)
Quote
2017-02-28;Sri Lanka;lkaa;Sri Lanka A Roads;preview - ready for peer-review ?
2017-06-13;Nepal;nplh;Nepal Highways;preview - ready for peer-review ?
Yes, but low priority.
Quote
2018-07-14;Russia;rusa;Russia Access Roads;preview - to be reviewed together with still in devel rusr system ?
It makes sense to do them together, so hold off.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: michih on April 08, 2020, 01:03:18 pm
2017-02-28;Sri Lanka;lkaa;Sri Lanka A Roads;preview - ready for peer-review ?
2017-06-13;Nepal;nplh;Nepal Highways;preview - ready for peer-review ?
Yes, but low priority.

Gave them chocolate. They are quite small systems and might be done as variety to a peer-review of a large system anywhere down the road - since you mentioned a "limit" of about "90 preview systems".
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: Bickendan on March 17, 2021, 03:57:34 am
I'm officially developing India.
I note that the National Expressways is listed as 'index'; shouldn't it be 'indne'? (I'm not currently working on states that have any numbered NE routes, and I'm deliberately omitting them at the moment for West Bengal as NH 12, 16, and 19 all 100% overlap them).
Currently:
INDNH -> Bickendan
INDAH -> Bickendan
INDWB -> Bickendan
ETA: Correct any state codes I added on the state list in the OP please.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: si404 on March 17, 2021, 06:52:32 am
I note that the National Expressways is listed as 'index'; shouldn't it be 'indne'?
Yes, the numbering having happened after I drafted the routes initially.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: andrepoiy on April 12, 2021, 08:12:20 pm
Based on Wikipedia, for Thailand, I believe the country should be split into the following systems:

1) Thailand primary national roads: Single-digit and double-digit routes.
2) Thailand regional national roads: Triple-digit routes.
3) Thailand intra-regional roads: 4-digit routes <-- I'm not sure if this would be allowed in Travel Mapping since, well, it is the lowest national classification and there appears to be a very large number of them on Wikipedia, however, there is a lower classification than 4-digit routes, Rural Highways, which are overseen by a different department from the national roads.
4) Bangkok Expressway Network: These tolled expressways, and are owned and maintained by EXAT, a government enterprise. There's also the Don Muang Tollway which isn't owned or operated by EXAT, and is also not part of the national network, so I don't know where that would go.

5) Thai motorway network?: There are only two actual motorways in Thailand, and in Thailand, motorways are not classified as the same as Bangkok's Expressways. It's Route 7 which is a full motorway, and Route 9, only a part of which is a motorway. Since there's so few, perhaps this would just be included in the Thai Primary network?

Anyways, take this with a grain of salt, as I've never actually lived in, nor visited Thailand.

Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: neroute2 on August 15, 2023, 04:51:59 pm
Is there a reason prkah is a separate system and not part of asiah?
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: si404 on August 15, 2023, 05:28:42 pm
Is there a reason prkah is a separate system and not part of asiah?
yes, because it (and all the other such systems) aren't ready for inclusion in an active system and being split by country makes it easier to work on, get them ready and reviewed and merged into asiah.

It's what we did with eure on CHM.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: neroute2 on August 15, 2023, 05:48:45 pm
yes, because it (and all the other such systems) aren't ready for inclusion in an active system and being split by country makes it easier to work on, get them ready and reviewed and merged into asiah.
I see; that makes sense.

So if I wanted to see all the routes I would go to https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?sys=asiah,bgdah,btnah,khmah,chnah,indaho,idnah,prkah,laoah,mmrah,nplah,thaah,vnmah .
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: si404 on August 15, 2023, 06:00:36 pm
yes, because it (and all the other such systems) aren't ready for inclusion in an active system and being split by country makes it easier to work on, get them ready and reviewed and merged into asiah.
I see; that makes sense.

So if I wanted to see all the routes I would go to https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?sys=asiah,bgdah,btnah,khmah,chnah,indaho,idnah,prkah,laoah,mmrah,nplah,thaah,vnmah .
yes, except it's not all the routes as a few are at a devel level.

If you are looking for a map, then UNESCAP has a couple of decent ones (a geographic one they did, a topological one by Cam Booth that they commissioned). Doesn't include the ASEAN 3-digit routes though.
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: rschen7754 on February 06, 2024, 12:51:38 am
Oman has a routelog here: https://www.mtcit.gov.om/ITAPortal/Pages/Page.aspx?NID=292763&PID=581044

While Google Maps has the markers, I couldn't find any in a cursory glance on Streetview.

Syria: there is a motorway system that has unfortunately been mentioned in the news. https://apnews.com/article/9f6d1f6ea8866e2d82e41b9bf08e67a5
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/syria/2020-02-22/ty-article/highway-linking-largest-syrian-cities-reopens-after-eight-years/0000017f-ded5-df9c-a17f-fedd60e60000
Title: Re: Asia-Pacific Master Thread (UNESCAP / ESCWA)
Post by: rschen7754 on February 24, 2024, 04:32:58 pm
Myanmar has both expressways and national roads. The expressways are definitely signed: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:YGN-MDY_Expressway_E1_sign.jpg

Google Maps does have the national roads but couldn't find any on Streetview.

Laos: has a routelog: https://www.mpwt.gov.la/download_statistics?name=%E0%BA%97%E0%BA%B2%E0%BA%87%E0%BA%AB%E0%BA%A5%E0%BA%A7%E0%BA%87%E0%BB%81%E0%BA%AB%E0%BB%88%E0%BA%87%E0%BA%8A%E0%BA%B2%E0%BA%94, signage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Route_7_of_Laos_country.jpg