Highway Data Discussion > Completed Highway Systems Threads
Spain Carretera Nacionales (espn) + Regional Routes (tier 5)
si404:
--- Quote from: peperodriguez2710 on February 05, 2017, 05:33:57 am ---I just hope they're added soon along with autonomical roads, they are a big part of the road network of my country. I couldn't believe that they hadn't been added yet.
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Given it's a huge and fairly complex system, it's unsurprising that we haven't done it. It took me over 100 hours just to bring the autovia/pista system up to date two summers ago. Most of the routes were already mapped (though I had to tweak them to fit better mapping data), and it took that long!
We're talking at least 10 working weeks worth of work for just the roads with N numbers. And you are surprised that we haven't already added not only them, but the Autonomous Community Roads (presumably just the Red- and Orange-signed ones)? This is a volunteer-maintained site!
They are on my to-do-list, but the Spanish road network is daunting and there's other pressures on my TravelMapping time, which is getting smaller and smaller. Gone are the summers where I can spend two weeks of 8-hour days and then several hours a day for most days in the rest of a three-month period that allowed the bringing up-to-date of most of Europe, and the creation of many of Europe's tier 4 systems: most of which took less than a working week's worth of work to bring to activation.
peperodriguez2710:
--- Quote from: peperodriguez2710 on February 05, 2017, 05:33:57 am ---
If you want them added, you gotta step up and help out with them yourself. That's how I got started with maintaining Washington state. It was clear nobody was going to fix any of the issues I reported, so the only way they were going to get fixed is if I took over maintenance of Washington. If you're interested in helping out, I would suggest PMing Jim.
Mod edit: Sorry I clicked the wrong button and accidentally edited your post! I meant to quote your post, not edit it.
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--- Quote from: si404 on February 05, 2017, 09:39:16 am ---Given it's a huge and fairly complex system, it's unsurprising that we haven't done it. It took me over 100 hours just to bring the autovia/pista system up to date two summers ago. Most of the routes were already mapped (though I had to tweak them to fit better mapping data), and it took that long!
We're talking at least 10 working weeks worth of work for just the roads with N numbers. And you are surprised that we haven't already added not only them, but the Autonomous Community Roads (presumably just the Red- and Orange-signed ones)? This is a volunteer-maintained site!
They are on my to-do-list, but the Spanish road network is daunting and there's other pressures on my TravelMapping time, which is getting smaller and smaller. Gone are the summers where I can spend two weeks of 8-hour days and then several hours a day for most days in the rest of a three-month period that allowed the bringing up-to-date of most of Europe, and the creation of many of Europe's tier 4 systems: most of which took less than a working week's worth of work to bring to activation.
--- End quote ---
I understand what you're talking about, and I'm so sorry that I wrote in that impatient way (English isn't my first language and in Spanish "I can't believe it" hasn't the same strongness as in English). I'm also in several projects and I know that sometimes there's not enough time for everything, and I would get involved if I wasn't busy with them. Because of that, I prefer to wait until that systems are implemented or I have time to do it myself, though there's no need to hurry, I can be patient :)
Anyway, if you have any doubt regarding Spanish road systems, I'll be glad to answer it!
Sorry another time, and have a nice day!
si404:
Don't worry about. Actually your request reminds me that a couple of years ago, I got a request to do India's National Highways. I spent three days doing the Asian Highways in India with the plan to some day do the National Highways (or allow someone else to do it easily) and replied to the request that I'd done this for now and there would be more to come at some point in the medium term. One person - not the one who asked for Indian Roads - has under 30km of 3000km (at least) travelled and that's it. :-[ I'm not doing the national highways system - not least as India was a chore to do.
At least Spanish National Highways will get some usage!
michih:
16 users drove Spanish autovias (espa) and 28 users drove Italian autostradas (itaa). I think both countries are it worth to get a tier 4 system (In addition, I have some mileage on both systems and I wanna travel to Spain again this spring). Dunno about Greece (grceo in development) but only 4 user have grca mileage.
I think Spain and Italy are the last remaining big European gaps which are not yet covered on that level. Potential national road networks are espn + itass. However, both systems are large and signage is quite bad. It makes it hard to draft the routes. See previous discussion about Italy:
--- Quote from: Spinoza on September 22, 2016, 08:50:53 am ---
--- Quote from: michih on September 21, 2016, 11:16:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: Spinoza on September 21, 2016, 03:43:23 am ---If we want to introduce the SS Italian system,
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Of course, we want! It's just a matter of having a full list of signed roads et cetera.....
--- Quote ---I think the only sensible way to do that is consider the entire road, not considering the "downgraded" sections that are handled by provinces, otherwise you'll end up with a road segmented in tens of small stretches far away from each other and with little meaning. This would be quite easy, since for instance Italian Wikipedia lists all of them in their original configuration.
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Do the rededicated sections have a new number, like SP123 (signed or unsigned)?
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It depends on the Region or Province that now handles them. Some provinces keep the number of the SS road and only change the prefix; some others change also the number, some others leave the entire name as before or add prefixes and/or suffixes.
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I think the central issue is that we only cover signed roads. Drafting espn or itass would require a time-consuming GSV search...
On the other hand, I thought beln has a similar problem but it applied to the A,B,C,... segments of 1-digit N roads only...
Signage at roads which only lead to the actually numbered road is quite common all over Europe... except some (northern) countries with dotted edge.
Are there minimum lists containing all espn or itass routes? Or official maps like available for Norway, Sweden, Bavaria et cetera?
peperodriguez2710:
--- Quote from: michih on February 19, 2017, 02:57:03 am ---(...)
Are there minimum lists containing all espn or itass routes? Or official maps like available for Norway, Sweden, Bavaria et cetera?
--- End quote ---
If you want a list of all national roads in Spain, there's a list in the Spanish Wikipedia, and other from the government:
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Carreteras_Nacionales_de_Espa%C3%B1a
http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/BFE3720F-F919-4ADA-9CCA-BC6F99FD8EEB/137467/Informe4.pdf (All roads staring with N-, if they only have a number (like [N-1], [N-3a]...) it should be written in roman ([N-I], [N-IIIa]) though listed as regular ones, because that's how they're signed actually; more info below.
http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/F61F9F71-8FF6-4494-81C0-1FB1A0AED9A5/139812/MapaIntensidad_2015.pdf a map with traffic data from 2015, it also shows the road numbers of almost all the national roads without seeing the dense low tier autonomical network.
Some additional information:
-All national roads in Spain use the letter N- in white over red as indicator. We use roman numbers for the radial ones, that were the first ones to be built ([N-I], [N-II], [N-III], [N-IV], [N-V] and [N-VI] and three digit numbers for the rest [N-XXX], assigned according to the sector where they are (sectors are marked by the radial ones). If you find roads in red indicators but without the N-, (like the C-12, for example) they aren't national roads, but autonommical roads from some regions that use the color red for their first class roads.
-As the most busy stretches of them have been converted to motorways, they can be intermittent sometimes. That is especially common with the radial ones, as most of the times the new radial motorway ([N-I] -> [A-1], [N-II] -> [A-2], ...) was built OVER the old radial national road and only mountain pass stretches and parts entering into villages remain as the original road. Other times, the old road is preserved as a service road for the new motorway and runs parallel from it. If a new motorway is built following the route of a national road, it usually (not always) takes its first two numbers ([N-501] -> [A-50], [N-540] -> [A-54], ...) this can be useful when searching for missing ones.
-Sometimes, national roads are transferred to autonomous communities and change denominations, so some of the list could be very short, intermitent or no longer exist. Trust in the signs, mileposts, and panels posted seen in Street View.
-National roads are only present in mainland Spain AND the African enclave of Ceuta. Do not bother to look into the Canary and Balearics, they're all autonomical there.
-When a national road is duplicated (for example, when bypassing a village that the road used to cross), a letter (usually a) is added after the number in one of the stretches to differentiate it (like N-IVa]. Very seldomly, the letter is added in capitals or after a -. They keep being considerated the same road as before. Other times letters are added for administrative reasons sometimes and appear with letters in road lists, but usually that extra letters aren't used actually; so trust in the signs, mileposts, and panels posted seen in Street View.
If there's any doubt, feel free to ask
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