Author Topic: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp / nlds)  (Read 685 times)

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Offline michih

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Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp / nlds)
« on: December 06, 2016, 10:57:27 am »
N2 to N99 are Rijksweg, owned by the national government. Niet-Autosnelwegen with higher numbers than 99 are provincial highways managed by the provinces: source. The first sentence is:

Quote
Een provinciale weg wordt veelal onterecht gelijkgesteld aan een N-weg in het dagelijks spraakgebruik. In feite zijn dit twee verschillende dingen.
Google translated: A provincial road is often wrongly equated with an N-way into everyday speech. In fact, these are two different things.

Should nldn be one system containing N2 to N999 or should there be two different systems (tier 4 + 5) like canab is? Shields are similar though.

Why is AB500+ a different system?
AB's routes higher than 216 use a different shield.
Alberta Provincial Highways 1-216 are tier 4.
Alberta Provincial Highways 500-986 are tier 5.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Alberta_provincial_highways

If there should be two systems, which name should the provincial highway system have? nldnp?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 06:14:53 am by michih »

Offline si404

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldn)
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2016, 11:37:38 am »
The shields being identical (OK, the shorter numbers use narrow cartouches) is the key sticking point here.

However, I'd go with two systems along the lines of:
nldr - Netherlands Rijksweg
nldp - Netherlands Provinciale Wegen

that they all have N numbers matters not with the system code really, so nldnp doesn't need the 'n'.

Offline michih

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp)
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2016, 12:56:27 pm »
nldr - Netherlands Rijksweg
nldp - Netherlands Provinciale Wegen

Thank you :) I'll change it.

In addition, nldr was drafted by you and I've already reviewed it. I think I'll activate nldr* by the end of the week if there are no further objections.

*Which is currently called nldn0.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 12:59:27 pm by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp)
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 04:41:14 am »
Drafting of nldp is completed now, system in preview*. I've also activated nldr with my latest pull request: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/1001.

*I forgot changing the "Level" column entry in systems.csv yesterday :(

Offline michih

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp)
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2016, 12:07:44 pm »
I've added some eursf candidates with my latest pull request: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/1003.

Code: [Select]
Drachtsterweg, Leeuwarden
John F. Kennedylaan, Eindhoven
Noorderbrug/Viaductweg, Maastricht
Goolsweg, Amsterdam
Nieuwe Leeuwarderweg/IJ-Tunnel, Amsterdam
Tilburgseweg, Eindhoven
Waterlinieweg, Utrecht
Westerval, Enschede

I'll activate them if there are no objections.

Offline michih

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp / nlds)
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2016, 06:18:21 am »
I thought we don't wanna draft district roads at all but we include city routes now?
I think there's analogies to the Dutch Stadsroute whereby the city is mostly excluded from the provincial/national routes but has its own system instead.

I'd suggest one tier-5 system with all the Stadsroute in with nld.s100ams names, even if there's no duplicated numbers (eg nld.s150zaa) and the cities listed for each route in .csvs ;)

I've added nlds system with my latest pull request: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/1011.
It's preview now.

I've added some eursf candidates with my latest pull request: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/1003.

Code: [Select]
Drachtsterweg, Leeuwarden
John F. Kennedylaan, Eindhoven
Noorderbrug/Viaductweg, Maastricht
Tilburgseweg, Eindhoven
Waterlinieweg, Utrecht
Westerval, Enschede

I'll activate them if there are no objections.

Done except of 2 Amsterdam routes which are nlds routes now.

Code: [Select]
Goolsweg, Amsterdam
Nieuwe Leeuwarderweg/IJ-Tunnel, Amsterdam

Offline michih

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp / nlds)
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2017, 03:23:25 pm »
There are also signed(!) ring roads: Bewegwijzerde ringwegen in Nederland. I think it's quite similar to Stadsroutes (nlds).



Should I add another tier 5 system, e.g.: nldrw Netherlands Ringwegen?

Some are already (partially or fully) covered by nlda, nldr, nldp or nlds.

Offline michih

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Offline si404

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp / nlds)
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2017, 09:45:03 am »
nlds

General - drop city suffixes from wpt labels, leaving just S123 rather than S123Abc (exception being S111Ove as its a spur)
have routes begin with the centre of the city if radial

Amsterdam
S103: S104_W -> N200
S104: S103_W -> N200
S105: BurRoeStr -> BurRoeStr_W or SloLaan_S
S106: MeerVaa -> MeerVaa_S ; the west end will change soon with the A9 works
S107: JahHuiLann -> JahHuiLann_S ; PleLaan -> JahHuiLann_N or PleLaan_E
S109: VanNijWeg -> EurBou_S ; BuiLaan -> BuiLaan_N
S110: PreKenLaan -> PreKenLaan_W
S111Ove: S111Ams -> S111 (reiterating what usually happens with spurs meeting mainlines)
S112: does it go into the city centre and meet S116?
S113: is MuiStrWeg S114? ; ElsDre -> ElsDre_N ; BijDre -> BijDre_W ; additional points for shaping at Grubbezee ; KarDre - KarDre_W
S114: does it reach S113?
S115: ZuiWeg -> ZuiWeg_W
S116: PriHenKade -> ValStr (or S112)
S118: MolWeg -> SteWeg

Den Haag
S100: MerWeg -> MerWeg_E
S104: S200Den -> N211
S106: SoeKade -> SoeKade_W
S200: S104Den -> N211 ; KjiStr -> KjiStr_N

Offline michih

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp / nlds)
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2017, 12:55:05 pm »
Thanks :) I have some questions to understand the rules.

nlds

General - drop city suffixes from wpt labels, leaving just S123 rather than S123Abc (exception being S111Ove as its a spur)

Ok, I'll change it.

have routes begin with the centre of the city if radial

Is this order really mandatory? I usally draft routes west to east and north to south. nlds routes have no exit numbers. Do I really have to change it? (if yes, I'll do it)

Quote
http://cmap.m-plex.com/tools/manual_hwydata.php
Euroroutes should run west to east and north to south.
Some countries use a major city as the origin and have exit numbers increasing radially outward and circumferentially in a certain direction.


Amsterdam
S103: S104_W -> N200
S104: S103_W -> N200

I've generally decided to use label names from the same system if both routes are from systems of the same tier. nlds and nldp are tier 5 systems. Should I really use N route label here?

S105: BurRoeStr -> BurRoeStr_W or SloLaan_S

S106: MeerVaa -> MeerVaa_S

Sorry, I don't understand why these suffixes are required. I couldn't find a rule and if there is a rule... I had to change A LOT of waypoint labels. I had to check all routes I've ever drafted...
Is it mandatory or just a suggestion? When are N/S/W/E suffixes generally required?

the west end will change soon with the A9 works

Nee (not yet): https://www.wegenforum.nl/viewtopic.php?p=957018#p956899 :)

Offline si404

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp / nlds)
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2017, 01:57:53 pm »
Is this order really mandatory? I usally draft routes west to east and north to south. nlds routes have no exit numbers. Do I really have to change it? (if yes, I'll do it)

Quote
http://cmap.m-plex.com/tools/manual_hwydata.php
Euroroutes should run west to east and north to south.
Some countries use a major city as the origin and have exit numbers increasing radially outward and circumferentially in a certain direction.
It's the latter one - these rules didn't forsee non-motorways in Europe. It's not a huge problem, far from it, merely a 'nice to have' - and you don't have to change it but its more in keeping with the system if its not assuming a grid. I've ordered routes by what seems to be the natural start, and what seems to be the natural end when drafting routes outside North America.
Quote
I've generally decided to use label names from the same system if both routes are from systems of the same tier. nlds and nldp are tier 5 systems. Should I really use N route label here?
No, my mistake, as I forgot the 3-digit N roads are the same level.
Quote
Sorry, I don't understand why these suffixes are required. I couldn't find a rule and if there is a rule... I had to change A LOT of waypoint labels. I had to check all routes I've ever drafted...
Is it mandatory or just a suggestion? When are N/S/W/E suffixes generally required?
Where it's a concurrency. These ones are where the road is turning onto/off of the road of the label name, rather than merely intersecting that road.

Offline michih

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp / nlds)
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2017, 03:58:04 pm »
^^ OK.

S112: does it go into the city centre and meet S116?
S113: is MuiStrWeg S114?
S114: does it reach S113?

No to all. It's only indicated on OSM but not on GM/GSV or wegenwiki.

All changes should be in: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/1194.

Offline si404

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp / nlds)
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2017, 06:53:21 pm »
General point - points named after junctions/plazas could be named after cross streets instead.

Nijmegen
S100: NeeWeg -> NeeWeg_W
S101: HolWeg point not on junction
S111: KeiHenVISin -> KeiHenVISin_W

Rotterdam
S100: Pom -> Pom_E
S101: missing S120 junction
S103: missing point for MaeWeg at ramp near south end
S108: KraZoom -> KraZoom_N
S109: CapWeg -> CapWeg_S
S113: StaWeg -> StaWeg_E
S120: move S101 junction, S106 -> S106/S123
S122: S100 -> S100/S106
S123: S120 -> S106/S120 ; S106_E -> S120_W
S127: CapWeg -> CapWeg_S

Zaandam
S150: CorBruWeg -> CorBruWeg_W
S152: missing A8 point

Offline michih

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Re: Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen (nldr / nldp / nlds)
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2017, 09:52:50 am »
Ok, nlds review finally done: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/1246.

I think I'll activate nlds soon.