Travel Mapping

Highway Data Discussion => In-progress Highway Systems & Work => Topic started by: yakra on January 21, 2018, 02:10:00 pm

Title: canmbp: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on January 21, 2018, 02:10:00 pm
Primary data source / Canonical Shapefiles:
NRN_MB_6_0_ROADSEG (http://ftp.geogratis.gc.ca/pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/geobase_nrn_rrn/mb/nrn_rrn_mb_shp_en.zip), dated 2016-06-06
(As opposed to the 6.0 shapefiles dated 2013-04-11 or 2013-11-04...  :o)

2xx (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2344.msg8756#msg8756) | 3xx (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2344.msg8757#msg8757) | 4xx (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2344.msg8758#msg8758) | 500+ (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2344.msg8759#msg8759)
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on January 21, 2018, 02:11:15 pm
MB200 - 299

"Off-label" color code (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=62.msg1123#msg1123) key:
not drafted
drafted; to be gisplunged
temp. unhiding shaping points in progress
gisplunged; not checked
gisplunged & checked; may or may not be committed to GitHub or live on site
done


Route Numbers:
200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 209
210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218
220 221 222 224 225 227 229
230 231 232 233 234 236 237 238 239
240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248
250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 259
260 261 262 264 265 266 267 268 269
270 271 272 273 274 275 276 278 279
280 282 283 285 287 289
290 291


NRN only (deleted?)
235: Deleted; folded into MB68

Shaping points temporarily visible for gisplunge:
234: 8 12
269: X129800
280: 25 57
282: X606335
283: X168237
287: X614052


210: North-South?

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.5368166,-100.0694701,3a,15.8y,226.81h,88.79t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sVMMMrsEe8upPpX74k1lSJw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41

canmb fixes:
TCH16: MB242Spr -> MB242Wes
TCH16AMin: recenter MB262_N
MB6: add MB237_W S. Moosehorn; MB237 -> MB237_E
MB8: MB409 -> MB220
MB9: MB409 -> GraRd
MB10: MB283 -> MB283/285
MB17: extend N to MB224
MB26: MB221 -> JubRd
MB44: add MB238
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on January 21, 2018, 02:11:19 pm
MB300 - 399

Route Numbers:
300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309
310 311 312 313 314 315 317 319
320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329
330 331 332 334 336 338
340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349
350 351 352 353 354 355 357 359
360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367
373 374 375
384
391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399


Unsigned or decommissioned:
300

366: NRN vs LRS

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.7219783,-95.2467409,3a,15y,135.24h,89.25t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sAmAxDavhpI5VSpFvtPp1yA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on January 21, 2018, 02:11:23 pm
MB400 - 499

Route Numbers:
403 404 405 406 408 409
410 411 412 415 416 417 418 419
421 422 423 424 425 427 428
430 432 433 435
440 442 443 444 445 448 449
450 452 453 455 457 458 459
462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469
470 471 472 474 475 476 478
480 481 482 484 485 486 487 488 489
490 491


NRN only (deleted?)
401: No LRS arc, hwy map, or GMSV
420: renumbered to 426 2007 (http://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/maparchive/2000/2007.html)-2008 (http://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/maparchive/2000/2008.html); fix label on MB14
434: No LRS arc, hwy map, or GMSV, no point on MB3, no problem

LRS only (new?)
426: renumbered from 420 2007 (http://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/maparchive/2000/2007.html)-2008 (http://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/maparchive/2000/2008.html); fix label on MB14
483: Good to go
493: Good to go
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on January 21, 2018, 02:11:32 pm
MB500+

Route Numbers:
500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509
512 513 518 519
520 521 524 525 528
530 532
541 542 543 545 547 549
564 566 567 568 569
571 575 577 579
582 583 584 588
591 592 593 594 596
636


NRN only (deleted?)
585: 1992 Great Decommissioning
586: 1992 Great Decommissioning; fix label on MB83
587: Decommissioned in 2006

(628 is unsigned; fix label on MB10)
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: oscar on January 21, 2018, 02:36:18 pm
Anything on the supposed PR 636 in Churchill (http://www.alaskaroads.com/MB636-sign_DSC9829.jpg) (isolated from the rest of the highway network, so it wouldn't appear in any files for other routes)? It wouldn't surprise me if that non-standard route signage on the airport road was contrived by locals, to impress the royals when they visited Churchill, rather than proof that it's part of the provincial road network.
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on January 21, 2018, 03:39:41 pm
All I know right now is, there's no "636" value in the RTNUMBER1 field anywhere in the (Edit: GeoBase NRN) shapefiles.
I'll look into it some more.
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on January 22, 2018, 05:51:40 pm
I am satisfied that MB636 exists.
https://www.ec.gc.ca/ee-ue/app/cepae2.cfm?lang=En&screen=Search/Search&ReportID=4
  (Enter "PR 636" (with quotes) in the Filter items box.)
https://twitter.com/TownofChurchill/status/868920627343880192
  ("Launch Road" specifically may be the locals being imprecise? If OSM has the Kelsey Blvd / Launch Rd changeover right, Launch Rd looks a bit suspect, per the highway map...)
And finally, the Official Highway Map (http://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/map/), maps # 10 (http://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/map/pdf/map10.pdf) and 11 (http://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/map/pdf/map11.pdf) clearly show a 2 Lane, Paved Provincial Road (http://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/map/pdf/legend.pdf).
Resolution is low, though; pinning down the endpoints may be difficult. (Or not -- see below...)
Looks like a relatively new designation (you were there in August 2013? (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10403)), a bit new to be showing up in the GeoBase NRN shapefiles yet. They seem a bit slow to get updated; for example the latest revision has yet to catch up with a section of MB236 being decommissioned (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=9.msg4887#msg4887).
OK, I found some LRS -Road Network shapefiles from Manitoba Land Initiative (http://mli2.gov.mb.ca/roads_hwys/index.html). And there's a road shown in Churchill... DESCRIPTIO = "Bernier St to Old Airport Terminal Rd (Churchill)", ROAD_IDENT = "Access Road" rather than "Provincial Road", but nonetheless I bet this is it. East end roughly here (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.75952&lon=-94.06367).

Trail of breadcrumbs:
http://mli2.gov.mb.ca/ / http://mli2.gov.mb.ca/app/register/app/index.php / http://mli2.gov.mb.ca/mli_data/index.html / http://mli2.gov.mb.ca/roads_hwys/index.html
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: oscar on January 22, 2018, 07:05:40 pm
I went, in August 2013, on a polar bear viewing tour east of Churchill (alas, I didn't see any bears, it wasn't high season for them). I think we went east of the airport, so I probably clinched PR 636 on the tour's shuttle bus to the "tundra buggies" taking us into bear habitat.

That is, unless PR 636 also extends west of downtown Churchill (I saw no route signs in that direction). I walked a short distance west of town toward the port and its grain elevators, but couldn't cover much ground before I had to catch the train back to Thompson.

BTW, the rail line to Churchill is now closed indefinitely due to extensive trackbed damage. Until that's fixed, visitors to Churchill will need to get there by air.
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on January 22, 2018, 11:13:45 pm
Out of curiosity, do you remember where you say the 636 shield? Churchill has GMSV, dated Oct 2013, after your visit, but I haven't found it yet.
From what I can make out, the east end is pretty close to the edge of what I'd call downtown.
BerSt http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.770217&lon=-94.175803
JamAve http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.766328&lon=-94.165268
+x1381-51 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.744600&lon=-94.104237
AirRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.753102&lon=-94.083608
OldATRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.759511&lon=-94.063701

You've probably got all of that?
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: oscar on January 23, 2018, 02:58:16 am
GMSV shows the 80kmh speed limit/PR 636 sign assembly I photographed, about 0.33 mi. SE of JamAve:

Sign http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=58.763655&lon=-94.157810

It's easy to miss except at high zoom levels, as whatever vehicle GMSV was using didn't take photos at the usual frequency, and the set closest to the sign is right alongside it so you need to use the next set to the northwest.

I did cover the entire route when I was in Churchill, on foot and/or in a shuttle bus.
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on January 23, 2018, 04:06:11 pm
Aah yes, there ya go. I checked near the east and west ends, but nothing quite that far out of town on this side.
Title: Re: Clinched Routes Highway Shields
Post by: oscar on February 02, 2018, 03:34:01 pm
Not to get too far ahead (canmbs is still being drafted), but Manitoba secondary route markers come in several flavors, not just the one in the photo yakra linked.
Title: Re: Re: Clinched Routes Highway Shields
Post by: yakra on February 03, 2018, 12:21:38 am
Got any links? They might just be old/outdated shield styles...
For example, follow the link above, and switch over to the May 2009 imagery.
Title: Re: Re: Clinched Routes Highway Shields
Post by: oscar on February 03, 2018, 05:37:10 am
The 2009 imagery you cite matches the style (bison centered on one line, Manitoba on a separate line) I've seen in various places, such as in this 2013 photo in Thompson of an End PR 391 sign at the north end of PTH 6 (http://www.alaskaroads.com/MB391-south-end-sign_DSC9874.jpg), and a 2015 photo at the other end of PR 391 in Lynn Lake (http://www.alaskaroads.com/MB391-west-end_DSC6383.jpg), as well as one near Minnedosa (http://i.imgur.com/mKcZwi8.jpg) and another one there (http://i.imgur.com/Q0hRDKy.jpg). For something that seems to be an even older style, see that second Minnedosa photo, as well as another 2015 photo in Lynn Lake (http://www.alaskaroads.com/MB397+MB391_DSC6382.jpg).
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on February 03, 2018, 03:12:45 pm
I wanna say those are just old shield styles, and can be disregarded.
I suggest using the one in http://www.gov.mb.ca/mit/map/pdf/traffic_signs.pdf as the current, canonical version

When the time comes I can use Inkscape to extract the shield image objects from the PDF, and save as an SVG.
It should be more straightforward than canmb, with no awkwardly-sized or centered characters.
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: oscar on February 07, 2018, 05:47:15 pm
My next pull request for cansk will add the remaining SK primary routes that connect to MB Provincial Roads. My endpoints for those SK routes are tentative. When you've drafted the corresponding MB routes, I'll resynch the SK endpoints to your MB endpoints.

I'm nowhere near finished with drafting the cansk route files.
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on February 07, 2018, 08:29:11 pm
My endpoints for those SK routes are tentative. When you've drafted the corresponding MB routes, I'll resynch the SK endpoints to your MB endpoints.
255 257 275 283 345 363 394 478 545 547 549 571
283: +X545324
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: oscar on February 07, 2018, 09:50:18 pm
Some of the routes you listed end at SK secondary routes, or SK unnumbered roads. Here are most or all of the ones connecting to SK primary routes (1-399), from south to north:

PR 345 -> SK 361
PR 257 -> SK 48
PR 571 -> SK 308
PR 478 -> SK 22
PR 547 -> SK 381
PR 363 -> SK 5
PR 283 -> SK 9

PR 394 connects to a short and super-isolated 900-series SK secondary route. It'll be a long time, if ever, before I do anything with the 9xx northern secondary routes.

PR 291 appears to cut through a corner of SK, on the south side of Flin Flon. I saw no route number signage on the SK side, when I drove almost all of the route in 2012 (missed about a block or two on the MB side due to construction). I wasn't planning to draft a route file for that segment, but am curious whether the shapefiles include it in PR 291.
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on February 08, 2018, 04:31:46 am
PR 291 appears to cut through a corner of SK, on the south side of Flin Flon. I saw no route number signage on the SK side, when I drove almost all of the route in 2012 (missed about a block or two on the MB side due to construction). I wasn't planning to draft a route file for that segment, but am curious whether the shapefiles include it in PR 291.
It's included as PR 291. Oddly enough, in the MB, rather than SK, dataset. None of the ends of the individual arc records appear to correspond to the provincial boundary.
Note how the Google and OSM boundaries differ pretty significantly, with OSM running directly north-south, and Google following a more diagonal path down toward Channing Drive.
Boundary shapefiles downloaded here (http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/geo/bound-limit/bound-limit-2011-eng.cfm) correspond to the boundaries shown in Google; The boundaries in the GeoBase NRN files (near Channing Drive, or PR 394) more closely correspond to OSM. The difference is pretty significant up by PR 394 too. This could get annoying... :(
Topo maps on MyTopo (http://mytopo.com/maps/index.cfm) also correspond to OSM near PR 394. Imagery isn't available everywhere; no luck near Flin Flon.
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on February 08, 2018, 05:10:18 am
SK/MB http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.386964&lon=-101.392608
SK/MB http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.842456&lon=-101.417625
SK/MB http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.328895&lon=-101.477067
SK/MB http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.638862&lon=-101.508849
SK/MB http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.080863&lon=-101.539078
SK/MB http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.404949&lon=-101.570628
SK/MB http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.746463&lon=-101.771246
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on February 13, 2018, 06:11:50 pm
A couple things to get sorted before the first batch of devel routes hits the HB...
Ping oscar, rickmastfan67, anyone else who might have an opinion here...



System Code:
http://clinched.s2.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?p=11626#11626
Quote from: Tim on Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:15 pm
Canadian systems in more detail:
...
canmbs - MB secondary prov. hwys. 200-999; prefix MB
I'm leaning away from using Tim's old proposed canmbs system code, and toward calling it canmbp instead.

The usual convention for secondary systems in the US & Canada is CountryCode+RegionCode+a letter denoting the name of the system.
cannbc (Collector) | cannbl (Local) | cannst (Trunk) | cannsc (Collector) | usatxl (Loop) | usatxs (Spur) | canmbw (Winnipeg) | cannss (Scenic)
For usamts, the system name is "Montana Secondary State Highways", so that's legit.
For usanes, what I had in mind was for the 's' to do double duty and signify both "Secondary" and "Spurs".


Non-secondary systems in specific multi-system regions follow this convention as well:
canqca (Autoroute) | cannba (Arterial) | usakyp (Parkway) | usanyp (Parkway)

usaush (Historic) & usausb (Bannered, even if "Bannered" is not in the system name itself makes sense) also fit into this scheme.

The only real outlier(s) = cannsf (Freeways), and possibly canonf (Freeways again; is there another potentially more appropriate name for this system (not proposing this be changed)?), both so named by Tim in 2009 or so, back before much thought had been given to multiple systems in a state/province, and before the system code conventions we're using now had fallen into place.
In modern times, there's just canabs. Here, "Secondary Highways" is more of a historic designation, with the nomenclature carrying on informally/colloquially. Seemed as good as any system code, with "Alberta Provincial Highways 1-216" and "Alberta Provincial Highways 500-986" being the system names for AB.

Outside North America, IIUC this same convention largely holds, with most system codes being Country/RegionCode+a letter or 2 denoting the name of the system. (Right?)

I don't anticipate there being any strong objections to calling the Provincial Roads canmbp instead of canmbs.
Thoughts, comments?



Route names & point labels:
Oscar has consistently used a "PR 555" style nomenclature when posting about these routes on this forum. (Although he did say "MB 391" on AARoads (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10403) once...)
This seems to be the prevailing convention in Manitoba from what I can see, and FWIW OSM/Mapnik also uses "PR 555" style.

Should I keep with the existing MB555 convention, or use PR555 style route names & point labels?

If we do go down that road, relabeling points on active systems, including accounting for in-use labels, can by done via a program, similar to the TNs -> TN relabeling in Tennessee. An easy task.
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: si404 on February 14, 2018, 07:54:22 am
Changing the system name is a good thing - I approve.

I did the same change from MTs123 to SR123 on waypoint names and have done similar changes in Europe. I'd say yes, go for it - as you say it's an easy task!
Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: oscar on February 14, 2018, 09:59:58 am
I see no problem with the system name change, or the label changes, for Manitoba provincial roads. But I have no interest in following suit in Saskatchewan, which has two secondary systems (municipal roads 600-799, provincial roads 900-999). For waypoint labels where they intersect provincial highways (1-399), I've been using SK___ and plan to stick with that.

The online mapping of both secondary route systems is particularly iffy (especially the northern 9xx routes), and diminishes any interest I might have in developing them as new systems.

Title: Re: canmbs: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: yakra on February 14, 2018, 02:29:30 pm
Quote
I see no problem with the ... the label changes, for Manitoba provincial roads.
Are you in favor of the changes, or do you simply not object? ;)

I don't suggest similar relabeling be done in SK. SK is a different beast, and different naming/labeling conventions will be appropriate there -- SK___ may in fact be the best one. You know more about SK than I do.
Title: Re: canmbp: Manitoba Provincial Roads
Post by: julmac on February 17, 2018, 01:13:41 pm
Out of simplicity, my preference is to refer to all systems in SK and MB as SK*** and MB*** in the waypoints, regardless of the official system name, as there are no overlaps in the numbers.

For what it's worth, I also prefer "Twp Rd" and "Rge Rd" over TR and RR. The "TR274" format has no meaning to me. The "Twp Rd 274" format is also consistent with how it appears on road signs.