Author Topic: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)  (Read 6729 times)

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Offline michih

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2016, 04:17:36 am »
armm - Armenia Magistrale
azem - Azerbaijan Magistrale
cism - Central Asia Magistral
geos - Georgia Sakartvelo Roads
isrh - Israel Highways
kaza - Kazakhstan Main Roads - several routes done, rest outlined
kgzem - Kyrgyzstan ЭМ Roads - need to find full route list
turd - Turkey Devlet Yolları

@Si: According to regions_countries_continents.csv, the countries of the quoted systems are in Asia. Shouldn't we move them to the Asia-Pacific thread phase 2 or phase 3?

Offline si404

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2016, 09:30:50 am »
@Si: According to regions_countries_continents.csv, the countries of the quoted systems are in Asia. Shouldn't we move them to the Asia-Pacific thread phase 2 or phase 3?
I'm using Europe here as UNECE and Asia/Pacific as UNESCAP. Most of those systems (not Israel) are in countries in both organisations, but I've put them here as, while all (bar Israel's) UNECE countries' tier 1 systems are active and the tier 3 system is too, none (but turo) UNESCAP tier 1 systems are active, nor is the tier 3 system. It would look a bit odd to have tier 4 systems started when all but one of the tier 1 systems (turo) aren't active (though I do have Sri Lanka and Cambodia sketched out to a certain extent).
« Last Edit: August 07, 2016, 09:33:16 am by si404 »

Offline michih

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2016, 11:29:34 am »
I'm using Europe here as UNECE and Asia/Pacific as UNESCAP.

I was just confused that non-Europe countries are listed. On the other hand, "UNECE tier 4 systems thread" and "UNESCAP systems thread" would also be strange...

Offline michih

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2016, 10:28:18 am »
Does Liechtenstein seriously have no signed highways? That makes tracking my jump from Switzerland to Austria a bit of a nuisance.
It might do - I've found '28' markers on the main road through Vaduz on Michelin (and the less reliable Google) Maps, with German wikipedia saying it's real, but part of the Swiss system (H16 also enters the principality, and is almost certainly the route you used across the country). Wegenwiki says that the road numbers are administrative only and not signed. A lot of maps I found on a quick google search aren't very up-to-date (eg this one with pre-85 E roads on it).

I'll leave it for Michael to find out more - he's expressed interest in doing Swiss roads, and meine Deutche ist nicht sehr gut, aber seine ist Wunderbar!

According to admin.ch (2016-01-01 version) and OSM, H28 ends near Landquart (at A13) but H16 crosses Liechtenstein.

Code: [Select]
16. (D)-Tägerwilen-Märstetten-Wil-Wattwil-Wildhaus-Buchs-(A)
28. Landquart-Klosters-Davos-Flüelapass-Susch-Zernez-Ofenpass/Pass dal Fuorn-Müstair

Offline cinx

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2016, 04:20:10 pm »
Why is the Austrian B108 not represented on its entire length?

Offline michih

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2016, 05:34:11 pm »
Why is the Austrian B108 not represented on its entire length?

Thanks for your feedback :)

I've answered in the corresponding autb thread: http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=376.msg2154#msg2154.

Offline michih

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2016, 02:09:07 pm »
ffopr - Faroe Islands Primærruter
iclth - Iceland Þjóðvegur

There are already some files on github. If I'm not mistaken the systems are called frolv and isls?
@Si: A little note would be nice like you've done for Kazakhstan or Kyrgyzstan :)

beln - Belgium Nationale Wegen
bihm - Bosnia and Herzegovina Magistralni Put
nldn - Netherlands Niet-Autosnelwegen
prtip - Portugal Itinerários Principais

It seems that there are also some files on github. Belgium was to test the water but I don't know about the others.

Nevertheless, I've plotted autb, cheh, czei, deub and swer. Sweden is close to be ready for a peer-review, I just wanna make a final review once my suggested eursf candidates have been approved or dismissed. The reviews of the other systems depend on that decision and a potential euror/eurap GO or rejection.


I don't know how much effort I have to spend for getting my preview systems active. Maybe I have a lot to do, maybe just some tweaks. That's why I thought about future systems I could draft. My favorites are:
- beln (already started)
- nldn (already started)
- hrvd

I would need some info about beln and nldn status though.
I think Croatian Državna cesta comprise about 220 D roads from D1 to D536.

Offline si404

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2016, 05:39:23 am »
ffopr - Faroe Islands Primærruter
iclth - Iceland Þjóðvegur

There are already some files on github. If I'm not mistaken the systems are called frolv and isls?
@Si: A little note would be nice like you've done for Kazakhstan or Kyrgyzstan :)
A note for these two "need more info" and (just for Iceland) "waiting in the hopes sanity comes to their road numbering and signing that means that what roads are important ones and what ones aren't are signed differently (as is meant to be the case now), but most of all consistantly".
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It seems that there are also some files on github. Belgium was to test the water but I don't know about the others.
Portugal was too (abandoned as it's rather a mess). BiH is to redo all their roads in 2018, though the drafts of the current system are reasonably complete. Netherlands has sub-100 routes done, plus one or two others. I made a start on Holland and Zealand (and grouped routes roughly by province) but most files are empty - it's a case of taking a look and seeing what's there, deleting what you don't want, keeping what you do, restructuring the folders as you see fit.

Leave Croatia for after Belgium and Netherlands and have a go at them first.

Offline michih

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2016, 01:32:47 pm »
ffopr - Faroe Islands Primærruter
iclth - Iceland Þjóðvegur

There are already some files on github. If I'm not mistaken the systems are called frolv and isls?
@Si: A little note would be nice like you've done for Kazakhstan or Kyrgyzstan :)
A note for these two "need more info" and (just for Iceland) "waiting in the hopes sanity comes to their road numbering and signing that means that what roads are important ones and what ones aren't are signed differently (as is meant to be the case now), but most of all consistantly".

Sanity comes their road numbering... :) I'm quite confident of seeing this happen before Spain will have a road numbering system one can explain on just one page of paper which will most likely happen before there will be no construction site on German Autobahns for just one day...

Am I right about the system names?

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It seems that there are also some files on github. Belgium was to test the water but I don't know about the others.
Portugal was too (abandoned as it's rather a mess). BiH is to redo all their roads in 2018, though the drafts of the current system are reasonably complete.

Sorry, I don't get it. Does that mean bihm could get active soon or do you wanna wait till BiH has done the announced renumbering? German dedication procedure of B road began in Mid of 1980s and was finally planned to be completed by late 2015 except the segments where construction works are pending (there are projects which will still take more than 10 years) and I've recently realized that there is minimum one segments which has been rededicated to L road although it was not on the official list... :( That's why I wanna postpone activation of deub...

I mean, we could wait ages for BiH. They even used Deutsche Mark in the 1990s... If the system is really complete, I think it should go active. But it's up to you...

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Netherlands has sub-100 routes done, plus one or two others. I made a start on Holland and Zealand (and grouped routes roughly by province) but most files are empty - it's a case of taking a look and seeing what's there, deleting what you don't want, keeping what you do, restructuring the folders as you see fit.

Is there any need for the folders? Netherlands are not dedived to provinces on TM like US, India, Canada or China. I think a plain structure should be the final look, shouldn't it?

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Leave Croatia for after Belgium and Netherlands and have a go at them first.

I made D1 yesterday. It seems that OSM and wikipedia data is quite good for Croatia. Minium for D1... Southern E71 was totally wrong though. There's no D62 or D511 but B56. Dunno, maybe there has been a renumbering in the last years...

I'll proceed with Belgium though but with a lower pace :)

Offline si404

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2016, 02:09:14 pm »
Am I right about the system names?
I honestly don't know what's right, through lack of sources for Faeroe Islands, and conflicting sources for Iceland.
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Does that mean bihm could get active soon or do you wanna wait till BiH has done the announced renumbering?
Kind of both - bihm could get preview soon if I pulled my fingers out. But I can't really be bothered as they will be all changing before too long.
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I mean, we could wait ages for BiH.
Not at all - they made listings of routes some years back, and so they are in that transition period. The other countries in the area have successfully renumbered - Germany is the exception to the efficient changes of the other countries.
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They even used Deutsche Mark in the 1990s...
No, they have always used the 'Convertable Mark' that was pegged to the Deutsche Mark at parity and now the Euro at the rate the DM was.
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If the system is really complete, I think it should go active. But it's up to you...
It's not complete, it's about half-ready to go to preview.
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Is there any need for the folders? Netherlands are not dedived to provinces on TM like US, India, Canada or China. I think a plain structure should be the final look, shouldn't it?
No, the folders were merely so I could do an area at a time and work across the country, rather than go numerically, it just seemed easier when I made a start to do that, rather than working in strict numerical order.
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Southern E71 was totally wrong though.
Really? Ah, some labels are now wrong. Hardly 'totally wrong'!

Offline michih

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2016, 03:27:38 pm »
Am I right about the system names?
I honestly don't know what's right, through lack of sources for Faeroe Islands, and conflicting sources for Iceland.

I'll add both in the overview but Iceland is ISL according to country.csv (Faeroe is missing).

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If the system is really complete, I think it should go active. But it's up to you...
It's not complete, it's about half-ready to go to preview.

Ok, I misunderstood you.

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Southern E71 was totally wrong though.
Really? Ah, some labels are now wrong. Hardly 'totally wrong'!

2 out of 3 waypoint labels were wrong... btw: I think there should be an additional waypoint just east of D8 roundabout, shouldn't it. The interchange has 3 ramps only and the waypoint location would be "far to the east" at the next underpass though...
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 03:30:47 pm by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2016, 02:40:08 pm »
prtip - Portugal Itinerários Principais (si404)

Thanks that you wanna make prtip but there's not yet any route in the HB, hence the system cannot be preview status ;)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 02:46:01 pm by michih »

Offline si404

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2016, 02:52:33 pm »
Thanks that you wanna make prtip but there's not yet any route in the HB, hence the system cannot be preview status ;)
I'd made it in the past. Studied it today and made the .csv files. I'm jumping the gun here, but I was making other edits here and so rather than wait for the pull request to be merged...

Offline michih

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2016, 03:18:39 pm »
Ok, I saw your pull request now... I was surprised because you wrote your files were just to test the water and it's a mess. I saw on wikipedia that it's really just IP1-IP9. Ok :)


btw: why have you changed the (default) color of YOUR European tier 4 systems from brown to orange?
To be honest, I think it looks worse compared to brown: http://tm.teresco.org/user/mapview.php?u=michih&rg=CZE&colors=tier4:rgb(255,165,0):rgb(255,165,0).
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 03:27:51 pm by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: Europe Tier-4 systems progress superthread (UNECE)
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2016, 03:41:47 am »
I've added a new color based on the states of Si's map from June 2016:
Black=not in HB, Red=devel, Orange=preview, Chocolate=ready to review, Green=active

Current chocolate systems are:
- bgri (Bulgaria)
- deub (Germany)
- norrv (Norway)
- poldk (Poland)
- svng (Slovenia)
- swer (Sweden)


@Si: mdam (Moldova) is indicated as "ready to review" on your map but there's no corresponding thread. Is it not ready to review or is just a thread missing?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 10:30:17 am by michih »