Author Topic: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems  (Read 799 times)

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Offline Quidditch33

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After trying to create another site(which I no longer am inclined to do so, as this site would be just fine with bike routes), I now am very familiar with how to create additional systems and routes within the system. If this is okay with everyone, I would like to start creating the USBR system.

Thanks,
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Offline bejacob

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2016, 06:03:13 pm »
I may be in the minority, but I think adding bike systems is a terrible idea.  I understand your passion for wanting to add bike routes as you describe yourself as a hardcore biker.

You mentioned in another topic that this would be a major tangent for this site. I couldn't agree more.

As a non-biker, I'd hate to end up clinching all the road mileage in a state but have my statistics show less than 100% because of bike routes I would never ride. While the idea sounds interesting, I'm not in favor of it.

That said, I am only one voice and have not been involved with the creation or maintenance of the site. As with everything else here, I will share my opinion and let those who do the work figure out the best course of action.

Offline oscar

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2016, 06:29:06 pm »
As a non-biker, I'd hate to end up clinching all the road mileage in a state but have my statistics show less than 100% because of bike routes I would never ride. While the idea sounds interesting, I'm not in favor of it.

Bike route mileage would not necessarily be combined with highway mileage, and I expect that there would be separate sets of statistics.

I see no problem with a separate bike routes sub-site under the TM umbrella. Only question is one of priorities. My sense is that there is greater interest in rail. Maybe we should do that first to work out some of the issues with mapping non-highway routes, then apply that experience to bike routes.

My own favorite sub-site is for ferries (auto or otherwise). That's probably behind rail and bike routes.

Offline mapcat

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2016, 10:25:44 pm »
Like Oscar said, this would be a decent addition as long as stats are kept separate, for the reason bejacob mentioned. Also, I propose that highway collaborators should not be responsible for bike routes in their jurisdictions. I'd be happy to handle rail system mapping for my states, but not bike routes.
Clinched:

Offline Quidditch33

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2016, 10:38:12 pm »
I'd be happy to handle rail system mapping for my states, but not bike routes.
If it is okay with everyone, I am perfectly able to handle the USBR system for every state. It isn't the hardest system to do, and I am quite familiar with the way that the HighwayData works.
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Offline michih

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2016, 03:15:41 am »
As a non-biker, I'd hate to end up clinching all the road mileage in a state but have my statistics show less than 100% because of bike routes I would never ride.

I'm not used to travel by bike or rail and I absolutely agree! Stats should be shows for each transportation system.
I think it was never proposed (by Jim or anyone else) to have one stats only but separate stats.

However, I like the idea that stats could optionally show all transportation systems one day. For that reason, I'm not sure if having separate data bases is a good idea. Having different servers for transportation systems (maybe even with different code versions) is definitely a no go if we wanna have this option one day...


Which transportation system should be added next? Rail, underground, bike, ferry or anything else?

I think it doesn't matter from a technical point of view. I guess adding an additional system is almost the same effort for a 2nd system only, 2nd+3rd or 2-4th system. The infrastructure must be implemented once and the front end is just design and text in the end of the day (which is some effort though).

I think the next system added depends on interested collaborators only who would start drafting routes.

And I think that's the way. First, we need routes drafted. Once there's a base of routes (like it already exists for rail), the implementation can start. That means, Quidditch33 should be added as collaborator so that he gets info of how to draft routes and work with GitHub. He's new, so one collaborator should check his first wpt files drafted, for instance about shaping points: Should bike routes be handled different to roads, e.g. should the "red limit lines" of the wpt editor be closer to the actual bike route?


I would only contribute for drafting (car) ferry routes but I've no idea how the routes should be drafted because only the start and end location are usually 100% clear, e.g. for connections in the Baltic Sea et cetera...
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 03:18:23 am by michih »

Offline Quidditch33

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2016, 06:25:32 am »
There's also the issue with the USBR system on major roads. There are often times where a bike route will follow a road that is currently on this site, and we need it where if you've clinched the road by car, it shouldn't count as you clinching the USBR. An example is USBR90 in Arizona currently follows I-10 for nearly two-thirds of the state, which means that if you have clinched I-10 in Arizona, you would also be clinching two-thirds of USBR90 in Arizona.
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Offline michih

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2016, 06:37:23 am »
There's also the issue with the USBR system on major roads.

That's no problem at all. If there are 2 identical waypoints with no waypoint in-between, one wp must just be moved by 0.000001° to break the concurrency.

Offline Quidditch33

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2016, 08:18:54 am »
If there are 2 identical waypoints with no waypoint in-between, one wp must just be moved by 0.000001° to break the concurrency.
Okay, thanks. I will be sure to keep that in mind when creating the system. I have already created a few routes in Google Maps(I just plotted the points that will be used as waypoints).
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Offline bejacob

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2016, 08:29:02 am »
Bike route mileage would not necessarily be combined with highway mileage, and I expect that there would be separate sets of statistics.

That alleviates my primary concern. Have at it.  :)

Only question is one of priorities.

As for me, I'm watching and waiting for the current "in development" systems (especially usaca, usafl, and usaga) to move to preview so I can better map my progress.  ;) Also looking forward to usava (and others) moving from preview to active.  :D I am pleased to hear work on usatn is beginning.

Offline michih

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2016, 09:14:25 am »
I have already created a few routes in Google Maps(I just plotted the points that will be used as waypoints).

Why? We use the waypoint editor: http://cmap.m-plex.com/tools/wpteditv3/wptedit.html.

Offline Quidditch33

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2016, 09:21:18 am »
I have already created a few routes in Google Maps(I just plotted the points that will be used as waypoints).

Why? We use the waypoint editor: http://cmap.m-plex.com/tools/wpteditv3/wptedit.html.
Oh wow, I had no idea it was that easy.. I thought that I had to manually input the latitude and longitude lines into the GitHub files.
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Offline froggie

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Re: Looking to work with the USBR system and possibly other bike systems
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2017, 09:07:42 am »
Regarding becajob's earlier comment and related to the responses, when discussion of TM first began, one of the reasons we named it Travel Mapping was because we wanted to leave it open to branching out into other travel modes besides just roads and highways.  For example, I know several people who track their transit & Amtrak system mileages.  And this would be a useful way for them and others to do so.

As I recall, because becajob's concern was also brought up then, there was general agreement that separate systems would have their mileages tracked separately.

Quote from: Oscar
Only question is one of priorities.

Correct.  I anticipated it taking a couple years before I got to the USBRS, in part to give myself and others time to finish the state highway systems but also to get transit/rail systems online.