Author Topic: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways  (Read 800 times)

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Offline Griffith

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cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« on: February 05, 2017, 02:46:00 pm »
Shouldn't the endpoints for NL220 be NL210_E and NL210_W?

Offline oscar

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2017, 11:56:24 pm »
Here's my notes on various routes, as I munch through the routes to figure out how much I've clinched. I'll add to this list as I continue my review. Looks so far to be pretty complete, especially in Labrador where I thought we'd run into problems. One possible missing route on Newfoundland island I'll have to track down.

Generally: check for places where the route trace goes overwater, but the actual route doesn't -- a few extra shaping points would help take our mapped route around bays, lakes, etc.

NL 460: request labeled waypoint somewhere in Campbell's Creek, between NL463_E and FelCove. I know I drove past Campbell's Creek to the eastern edge of Abrahams Cove, but am unsure I made it all the way to NL463_E or beyond. EDIT: A check of my handheld GPS readings confirms that I drove beyond Abrahams Cove to the west end of NL 460.

NL 480: request labeled waypoint at Park Place in Burgeo (westernmost intersection in that town). I know I went into that town, but am unsure I made it to the end of the route before turning back.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 03:17:52 pm by oscar »

Offline si404

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2017, 06:54:20 am »
Shouldn't the endpoints for NL220 be NL210_E and NL210_W?
Yes. Fixed
Generally: check for places where the route trace goes overwater, but the actual route doesn't -- a few extra shaping points would help take our mapped route around bays, lakes, etc.
Collaborators - how important is this? I've just had a go with NL460, and it just seemed a bit like busy work to move the route about 50ft north.

Offline michih

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2017, 08:13:02 am »
Generally: check for places where the route trace goes overwater, but the actual route doesn't -- a few extra shaping points would help take our mapped route around bays, lakes, etc.
Collaborators - how important is this? I've just had a go with NL460, and it just seemed a bit like busy work to move the route about 50ft north.

Sorry, why should it be relevant? I thought it's important that the actual route does not exceed the "red limits" in the wpt editor. I couldn't find any rule.

What's about: http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?r=nld.n302. More wpts b/n N506 and HouWeg? More wpts b/n N306/N707 and FleWeg? I don't like that idea.

Offline oscar

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2017, 12:45:46 pm »
Generally: check for places where the route trace goes overwater, but the actual route doesn't -- a few extra shaping points would help take our mapped route around bays, lakes, etc.
Collaborators - how important is this? I've just had a go with NL460, and it just seemed a bit like busy work to move the route about 50ft north.

Sorry, why should it be relevant? I thought it's important that the actual route does not exceed the "red limits" in the wpt editor. I couldn't find any rule.

What's about: http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?r=nld.n302. More wpts b/n N506 and HouWeg? More wpts b/n N306/N707 and FleWeg? I don't like that idea.

I was thinking more of Tim's "few extra shaping points" permission. For example, NL 360's and NL 480's south ends each look like they cross a bay, which they wouldn't if one or two extra shaping points (or my requested ParkPl point for NL 480) were added. For a coast-hugging route like NL 460, you're talking a lot more than a "few extra shaping points", so I would largely leave that alone other than my Campbell's Creek point request (which is for non-shaping reasons).

When I overhauled US 101 and CA 1 in California, I added a few shaping points to keep both routes on-shore, and separate from each other in an area where they ran near each other.  Other coast-hugging parts of CA 1, I didn't bother.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 03:13:56 pm by oscar »

Offline si404

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2017, 05:11:42 am »
OK, I understand now. Will do as part of my overhaul (probably today or tomorrow) of proof reading all my routes.

Offline oscar

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2017, 05:03:29 pm »
In the St. John's area, for some routes there are significant differences between what's displayed in online maps, and the ones in the HB. I'm not convinced that the online maps are right -- for example, Mapnik has NL 11 coming within spitting distance of Cape Spear (easternmost point in Canada), while my notes from my 2003 visit there and the HB have Cape Spear as much more distant from NL 11. If the HB routings are based on fairly recent shapefiles, fine. 

I'll add that in Labrador, where online mapping was really sketchy when I was there in 2011 and is probably a little suspect even now, I took handheld GPS readings of most of the route endpoints. They all match up nicely with what's in the HB. (I didn't whip out my GPS receiver nearly as much on NAewfoundland island.)

Also, in the southwestern corner of the province, NL407 has a waypoint labeled "Sea" (for the Searston community),that is at an intersection with a secondary road (which I traveled, for no apparent reason other than perhaps a road closure north of Searston) for which online mapping shows route number 407-1 but no name. Elsewhere I've noticed the HB often uses road names rather than secondary route numbers. and I'm OK with that preference. But where we have no road name available, I suggest using the secondary route number.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 08:34:59 pm by oscar »

Online yakra

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2017, 03:01:45 pm »
I disagree; I think the secondary route numbers should not be used if they're unsigned.

Offline oscar

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 11:18:01 pm »
I disagree; I think the secondary route numbers should not be used if they're unsigned.

A quick look in GMSV suggests at least the west end of 407-1 is unsigned. But some secondary roytes are signed, like 514-1 west of Charlottetown (which was signed as such in 2011, rather than NL 515 as I had expected -- so I decided not to make the side trip to Pinsents Arm). There's no GMSV coverage to confirm the 514-1 signage is still there, not that it matters since I'm OK with leaving the PinArm point as is even if that secondary route is signed.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 12:01:15 pm by oscar »

Offline oscar

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2017, 03:14:26 pm »
I dredged up a detailed 2012 tourism map, covering both Newfoundland island and Labrador. Any point in using that to crosscheck the draft routes now in the HB? Or are those routes based on more recent shapefiles or other data (and how recent)?

Offline si404

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2017, 05:01:04 pm »
It's basically OSM, with the exception of stuff like NL11, where it showed it three ways and I went on  (typically limited) GMSV and decided it didn't go to the Cape. Cross-check with the 2012 tourism map would be great thanks.

Online yakra

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2017, 12:54:48 am »
I could cross-check against shapefiles too, though I wouldn't call that definitive. Won't promise anything though. My activity level has been pretty low these last few weeks.

Online yakra

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 03:02:33 pm »
The very beginnings of some peer review...

NL353:
This is shown on OSM, and in the shapefiles, as route 350-17. I was unable to find any route number signage at route 350, the southern or northern beginning of the route, or at the intersection with "route 350-18".
Looks like this one should be left out. What was the rationale for including it?

NL511:
The route is included in the shapefiles, but not shown on any of the online tile maps. We can't use GMSV to verify whether it's signed or not as there's no coverage in the area. In any case, here it is; just some raw data dumped from the shapefiles (RTNUMBER1 = 511) and manually stitched together...
Code: [Select]
5665-1 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.460270&lon=-56.859744
5665-2 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.460628&lon=-56.858361
5665-3 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.460825&lon=-56.857900
5665-4 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.461041&lon=-56.857583
5665-5 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.461230&lon=-56.857611
5665-6 +33842-1 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.462041&lon=-56.859652
33842-2 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.461638&lon=-56.860820
33842-3 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.461460&lon=-56.861900
33842-4 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.461165&lon=-56.864103
33842-5 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.460979&lon=-56.866263
33842-6 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.460998&lon=-56.867097
33842-7 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.461380&lon=-56.870724
33842-8 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.461560&lon=-56.871443
33842-9 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.461831&lon=-56.871946
33842-10 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.462011&lon=-56.872176
33842-11 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.462335&lon=-56.872492
33842-12 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.462974&lon=-56.872893
33842-13 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.464790&lon=-56.873276
33842-14 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.466031&lon=-56.873374
33842-15 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.466724&lon=-56.873357
33842-16 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.467020&lon=-56.873285
33842-17 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.467362&lon=-56.873025
33842-18 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.467936&lon=-56.872030
33842-19 +35673-1 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.468215&lon=-56.871683
35673-2 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.468574&lon=-56.871322
35673-3 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.469113&lon=-56.870990
35673-4 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.471378&lon=-56.870307
35673-5 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.472385&lon=-56.869901
35673-6 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.473733&lon=-56.869854
35673-7 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.475603&lon=-56.869143
35673-8 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.477805&lon=-56.868042
35673-9 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.478676&lon=-56.867521
35673-10 +15580-1 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.479889&lon=-56.866567
15580-2 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.480248&lon=-56.866264
15580-3 +34300-1 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.481012&lon=-56.865772
34300-2 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.481624&lon=-56.865770
34300-3 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.482388&lon=-56.865970
34300-4 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.483324&lon=-56.866327
34300-5 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.484025&lon=-56.866714
34300-6 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.484575&lon=-56.867187
34300-7 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.486294&lon=-56.869026
34300-8 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.486987&lon=-56.869614
34300-9 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.487383&lon=-56.869872
34300-10 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.487932&lon=-56.870044
34300-11 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.488975&lon=-56.870185
34300-12 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.490063&lon=-56.870455
34300-13 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.490675&lon=-56.870670
34300-14 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.491161&lon=-56.870942
34300-15 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.491917&lon=-56.871602
34300-16 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.493069&lon=-56.872391
34300-17 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.493330&lon=-56.872722
34300-18 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.493978&lon=-56.873988

NL510:
AnseAmoBraRd does not meet labeling conventions. Something such as AABraRd, AnseAmoRd, AnseBraRd, etc. should be chosen. That is, unless we can verify there's a signed NL511 here...

Offline oscar

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 03:51:27 pm »
NL511:
The route is included in the shapefiles, but not shown on any of the online tile maps. We can't use GMSV to verify whether it's signed or not as there's no coverage in the area. In any case, here it is; just some raw data dumped from the shapefiles (RTNUMBER1 = 511) and manually stitched together...

I ran the data through CHM's Waypoint Editor to see where the route went. I don't recall seeing any signs for NL 511 from NL 510 northbound in that area, when I drove through Labrador in 2011. I was trying pretty hard to clinch every numbered route in Labrador on that trip, so I was looking for such signage. But I can't rule out signage on SB NL510, or elsewhere on route 511, or that the route became signed since 2011.

My copy of the official highway map, also from 2011, also shows no road in that location, not even an unnumbered or hyphenated-numbered route.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 10:23:21 pm by oscar »

Online yakra

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Re: cannl:Newfoundland & Labrador Provincial Highways
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2017, 12:10:12 am »
It's marked as route 511 in the 6.0 shapefiles, dated 2009-08-26. If it was unsigned before 2011, it's probably safe to say it's remained unsigned since. The rest of the evidence points to it being a minor/unsigned route, so I'm fine with leaving it out.