Author Topic: usanyp: New York Parkways  (Read 2073 times)

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Offline yakra

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Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2018, 11:59:58 pm »
I will see your signage from the BRP and raise you this signage from Bronx Park East. I would interpret the signage for Mosholu Pkwy - both from the BRP and as seen in that image below the street signs - as missing  a "to", or having one implied.
Agreed. It's a fair cop.
Considering this in combination with the signage @BRP, let's say then that at the very least, BroParkEast is out as an endpoint. We can have the "One Point Per Interchange" rule wibble its wobble that way.
Think of the traveler who approaches from the BRP, takes the MosPkwy exit, and thinks he's all set, only to find upon checking the HB that...

Ultimately though, this is another episode of "What is..."

The name of that section of road is "Southern Blvd". It is signed as such,
Definitely the case at the SouBlvd intersection.
That's probably my biggest problem here, the lack of signage at that point for a continuation Mosholu Parkway to the south...

and Hagstrom always knew it as such.
3rd-party cartographers, Hagstrom, RMcN, and the like, I would put less stock in, in favor of direct gov't sources such as the TDV, TDR, or shapefiles...

The road named "Mosholu Parkway" ends at a T intersection with the road named "Southern Blvd"
The MilepointRoute2015 shapefiles have an RIS_NAME attribute for the section in question of "MOSHOLU PKWY", not Southern Blvd, "DR KAZIMIROFF BLVD", or anything else. So in some sense...

But, what is the Mosholu Parkway? Is it the road named "Mosholu Parkway"? Or is it a route defined by some other measure (e.g. the NYS reference route number), which is not necessarily coterminous with the road named "Mosholu Parkway"?

The former seems to be more in line with what exists in the real world, while the latter may be more in line with what exists on paper.

Of course, if we've already concluded we're going to define parkways by reference routes, including that section of Southern Blvd in our Mosholu Parkway file would at least be consistent with the established methodology.
Of course, there's not a 1:1 correspondence between parkways and reference routes.
Belt Parkway is 9087A, 907B, 907C, and 907D. But forget about that, becase this situation is more like...
Reference route 908K is partly SagStaPkwy and partly SunMeaPkwy.
• 908K is SagStaPkwy, and some other stuff that's not SagStaPkwy. And,
• 908K is SunMeaPkwy, and some other stuff that's not SunMeaPkwy.
It's listed in the Touring Route Book as "Sagtikos and Sunken Meadow State Parkways", but the TDR just calls it "Sagtikos State Parkway".
Similarly, Reference route 908M is in the HB now as just SouStaPkwy. It's been proposed to split the Heckscher Parkway off into its own file, and I agree there.
Touring Route Book = "Southern State Parkway/Heckscher State Parkway"; TDR = "Southern State Parkway".

Hm... So, the Touring Route Book does tend to list both Pkwy names for a ref rte if there's more than one... What to make of 908F just being "Mosholu Parkway"? :-\

Also of note is that TMK, every bit of reference route on the Parkways list is included in something in the HB, with the one exception -- full disclosure? :) -- of the Drumgoole Rd section of 909C.

Offline Duke87

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Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2018, 10:43:50 pm »
For what it's worth, I asked my grandfather (a lifelong Bronx resident) today where he thinks the Mosholu Parkway ends. He said that it ends at that intersection (SouBlvd).

Also pointed out that at one point the road was supposed to be extended from there to the Bronx River Parkway  - a fact which Steve Anderson's page confirms, although this is interesting:
In the 1950's and 1960's, Moses, who served as New York City's parks commissioner and arterial coordinator, advanced plans to reconstruct the Mosholu Parkway into a controlled-access route. The $13.5 million reconstruction project was to not only cover the 3.0-mile distance of the parkway proper, but also include the construction of a 1.2-mile link to the Bronx River Parkway along the existing Dr. Theodore Kazimiroff Boulevard.

So basically, there were plans to extend the parkway along that alignment - perhaps thus explaining its inclusion in the reference route. Which sounds rather similar to the situation with 909C and Drumgoole Rd (parkway is stub, was planned to extend along that alignment).

Offline vdeane

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Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2018, 04:06:04 pm »
I could see a case for treating it similar to the Drumgoole Rd section of 909C given the signage outside of the BRP and the info from  It would certainly be consistent.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.