Author Topic: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems  (Read 435 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online yakra

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1103
  • Last Login:Today at 11:37:49 pm
Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« on: August 13, 2017, 03:24:55 am »
NL, PE, and BC have one provincial system each.
The majority of Canadian provinces ("As for the territories, THEY'RE TOO COLD!" -Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie) have multple tiers of systems:
NS has Arterials, Trunks, and Collectors.
QC has Autoroutes and regular Provincial Routes.
ON has 400-Series and King's Highways (separate systems, similar/same shield), and other lower-tiered systems not now planned to be part of TravelMapping.
MB has primary and secondary systems.
AB has primary and secondary systems.
SK has multiple systems too.

NB, similarly, has Arterials, Collectors, and Locals.
The shields are similar, yes, but still different -- the color of the background is key:
Green = Arterial, 1 & 2-digit routes.
Blue = Collector, NB1xx routes.
Black = Local, NB2xx thru NB9xx routes.

Splitting would provide a nice visual hierarchy to the map, with the different tiered routes more easily standing out from one another. Compare neighboring Nova Scotia, with much of its network filled in as Tier 5/yellow.
Travelers would be able to track their travels and stats/mileage/percentage on just the Arterials, if they wanted. Or the Arterials and Collectors, etc...
If anyone were to actually miss tracking everything as a single system, that would still effectively be available when tracking by region -- the only other system in NB, cantch, is 100% concurrent with the cannb Arterials. Right now, the cannb system = 5280.27 miles, and the NB region = 5280.27 miles.

.list files will not be affected in any way.
NB1 stays NB1, NB100 stays NB100, NB205 stays NB205, etc.
So yeah, I really don't see any disadvantage to doing this.
Hold on; lemme try to think of something -- in the HB, the Provincial Highways won't all be listed in one single place. I think we can manage. :)

--

Local Highways would become Tier 5 / yellow.
Collector Highways would stay Tier 4 / brown
Arterials are a bit trickier. Should they be Tier 1 / blue, as is cannsf?* Of 12 routes, I'd classify 4 as "all freeway", 3 as "largely freeway", and 5 as "all surface". The Arterials aren't intended to be a freeway system, and there aren't plans to upgrade the surface routes to such. Thus, Tier 2 / teal may be more appropriate here. I want to hear what others have to say about this bit.

*As for whether cannsf should be blue or teal, that's another topic worthy of discussion.

Offline vdeane

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Gender: Female
  • Last Login:Today at 06:56:58 pm
    • New York State Roads
Re: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 03:18:45 pm »
This is a good idea, and I like Tier 2/teal for Arterials.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Offline Jim

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 936
  • Last Login:Today at 10:43:48 pm
Re: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 03:40:06 pm »
Sounds good to me.

Offline froggie

  • TM Collaborator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 224
  • Last Login:January 17, 2018, 05:50:52 am
Re: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 11:36:23 pm »
What are we doing for the other provincial primary systems?  The tier for NB primaries should match those.

Offline oscar

  • TM Collaborator
  • TM Collaborator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 391
  • Last Login:Today at 11:16:28 pm
Re: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2017, 12:09:19 am »
SK has multiple systems too.

I would count 1-399 (major southern routes 1-99, major northern routes 100-199, and branches from southern major routes 200-399) as one system, all with similar signage. But southern secondaries (600-799) and northern secondaries (900-999) are signed differently, so could be counted as the second and third systems.

As for color assignments for NB, I'm unconvinced that we need different colors, and would minimize the use of yellow.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 12:17:52 am by oscar »

Online yakra

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1103
  • Last Login:Today at 11:37:49 pm
Re: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2017, 01:32:23 am »
What are we doing for the other provincial primary systems?  The tier for NB primaries should match those.
It varies between provinces, depending on the standard of the highways in question.
NL, PE, BC (one system each), MB, AB, and SK (as cansph, which only contains SK routes at this point) are all Tier 4.
NS, QC, and ON are all Tier 1.
I think this is a "one size does not fit all' scenario; the Tier should be geared toward what best fits the class of the highways in question. I see New Brunswick as being in more of the "Eastern Canada" mold, with the Tier 1 provinces, most similar to Nova Scotia IMO.
I could even see the Arterials as being Tier 1 / Teal -- this combo is unprecedented, sure, but I don't see any reason why it can't be done.

As for color assignments for NB, I'm unconvinced that we need different colors,
I disagree; I *am* convinced. :D

and would minimize the use of yellow.
I don't know whether your objection to yellow is on a purely aesthetic basis or not, but if you said it was a bit ugly, I'd agree. It's rather low contrast against the light-colored map backgrounds, and somewhat difficult to see, especially at lower zoom levels. Tweaking the colors may be a possibility, as well as switching to lightsalmon in North America. The only systems to worry about would be cannsc, cannss, usamts, and canmbw.
That said though, there's going to be more yellow (or, Tier 5 at least) in Canada, as I plan on adding the canabs and canmbs systems.

--

I may just dust off that old C++ program from 2014 that made CHM-style maps on a Javascript canvas, create some mockups, and see how they look.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 05:19:48 pm by yakra »

Online yakra

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1103
  • Last Login:Today at 11:37:49 pm
Re: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2017, 03:42:39 pm »
I may just dust off that old C++ program from 2014 that made CHM-style maps on a Javascript canvas, create some mockups, and see how they look.

In each of these examples, routes 17, 180, and 385 (in the NW corner of the province) are marked as clinched, just to show both colors on the map and give an idea of the contrast.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 12:32:54 am by yakra »

Online yakra

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1103
  • Last Login:Today at 11:37:49 pm
Re: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2017, 09:48:22 pm »
NB with the more golden yellow I've been experimenting with in another thread:

Online yakra

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1103
  • Last Login:Today at 11:37:49 pm
Re: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2017, 04:37:04 pm »
On a related note: I don't have the spreadsheet I was using, but I think we would be able to get shields for cannb if the system was split (see http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2171.msg7316#msg7316)

Online yakra

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1103
  • Last Login:Today at 11:37:49 pm
Re: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2017, 10:39:26 pm »
I've decided to keep cannsf blue, and not take too great leaps away from the status quo at once.
Either way, it [the color of cannsf] should probably match whatever is decided for New Brunswick (if it gets split), since they're more similar to each other than anything else.
Agreed. And as such, I'll be making cannba blue. I don't 100% like how little freeway mileage there is in this system, but still think this fits best here.
What I do like is having an uninterrupted blue highway network connecting QC, NB and NS on the mapview.
Think of blue as representing "these are the most important/significant highways in this region" rather than as a strict freeway network if that helps.
Similarly, keeping the I-95/NB95 corridor a solid blue rather than blue/brown would be nice.

And now, to nerd out and enumerate all the ME/NB crossings...
NB161: red/brown; stays the same
NB17: nothing/brown -> nothing/blue (Looks a little worse but ya gotta zoom in. NB2 is right there being all blue anyway.)
NB218: nothing/brown -> nothing/yellow (better contrast)
NB375: brown/brown -> brown/yellow (worse contrast)
NB190:  brown/brown; stays the same
NB110:  nothing/brown; stays the same
NB95: blue/brown -> blue/blue (better contrast)
NB122:  nothing/brown; stays the same
NB4: brown/brown -> brown/blue (worse contrast)
NB1: nothing/brown -> nothing/blue (worse contrast in the immediate area, but the red/blue of nearby US1 looks okay...)
NB170:  nothing/brown; stays the same
NB774: brown/brown -> brown/yellow (worse contrast)


I'll get to work on getting the changes in.
Edit: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/1550
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 12:17:20 am by yakra »

Offline michih

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 896
  • Gender: Male
  • Last Login:Today at 02:58:09 am
Re: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2017, 11:53:39 am »
It was split and the systems are active. Can the thread be closed?

Online yakra

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1103
  • Last Login:Today at 11:37:49 pm
Re: Proposal: Split cannb into 3 systems
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2017, 01:09:19 am »
Can't seem to mark a topic as Solved on this particular board.
If you'd propose moving it into Completed Highway Systems Threads, I'd be OK with that.