Author Topic: NC: US17BusTrkEli  (Read 296 times)

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Offline mapcat

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NC: US17BusTrkEli
« on: January 02, 2018, 01:47:23 am »

These two different routes have the same .list name showing in the HB (US17BusEli). The .csvs are ok, so it looks like the BusTrk in the banner field is getting truncated to 3 characters.


http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?units=miles&u=mapcat&r=nc.us017buseli
http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?units=miles&u=mapcat&r=nc.us017bustrkeli


If it's not possible to have 6-character banners, I suggest changing the second one to us017trkeli.
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Offline mapmikey

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Re: NC: US17BusTrkEli
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2018, 06:31:21 am »
A broader solution may be required.  There is also US17AltTrkSum in South Carolina which is not near US 17.

Perhaps changing the name to US17ATrkEli and US17ATrkSum would work? Nomenclature is similar to NY9PTrkSar.
Clinched:
I: 4 12 16 17 20 26 27 30 59 64 66 68 72 73 ew74 77 78 79 82 83 ew84 85 ew86 e88 97 99
US: 4 6N 9W 11E 11W 13 15 19W 21 44 46 48 58 72 92 113 117 123 130 158 163 176 178 192 206 209 211 219 220 221 222 258 264 276 290 311 319 322 340 360 378 401 ew422 501 521 522 601 701
PriSystems: VA, DE

Offline Jim

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Re: NC: US17BusTrkEli
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2018, 08:14:36 am »
Both the banner and abbrev fields are truncated to 3 characters in the DB.

I should add a datacheck for this.  I even already have a GitHub issue about the problem, so this is a good reminder for me to try to implement this before the semester rush hits.

https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/56

Offline yakra

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Re: NC: US17BusTrkEli
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 04:08:47 pm »
Several double-bannered routes exist in usausb:
usausb;SC;US17;AltTrk;Sum;Summerville, SC;sc.us017alttrksum;
usausb;NC;US17;BusTrk;Eli;Elizabeth City, NC;nc.us017bustrkeli;
usausb;TN;US31;AltBus;Lew;Lewisburg, TN;tn.us031altbuslew;
usausb;TN;US41;AltByp;Cla;Clarksville, TN;tn.us041altbypcla;
usausb;TN;US70;AltByp;Hum;Humboldt, TN;tn.us070altbyphum;
usausb;VA;US258;BusAlt;Smi;Smithfield, VA;va.us258busaltsmi;

(Three for mapmikey; three for mapcat.)
I have not checked to see whether any exist in other systems.

If it's not possible to have 6-character banners, I suggest changing the second one to us017trkeli.
Seconded. To clarify, I agree with the whole statement, as a conditional.

A broader solution may be required.
Seconded.

Perhaps changing the name to US17ATrkEli and US17ATrkSum would work? Nomenclature is similar to NY9PTrkSar.
I read this as, include the 'A' or 'B' as part of "route" field, and use just a 3-character banner.
The nationwide convention for usausb has always been to use Alt/Bus/Byp/etc. banners instead of A/B/etc. suffixes, even if they're signed the latter way in a given state. State systems are a different beast, and letter suffixes have been allowed.

A workaround that would avoid breaking with this convention, and keep the intended .list names in place, would be to just include the whole first banner in the route field:
usausb;SC;US17Alt;Trk;Sum;Summerville, SC;sc.us017alttrksum;
usausb;NC;US17Bus;Trk;Eli;Elizabeth City, NC;nc.us017bustrkeli;
usausb;TN;US31Alt;Bus;Lew;Lewisburg, TN;tn.us031altbuslew;
usausb;TN;US41Alt;Byp;Cla;Clarksville, TN;tn.us041altbypcla;
usausb;TN;US70Alt;Byp;Hum;Humboldt, TN;tn.us070altbyphum;
usausb;VA;US258Bus;Alt;Smi;Smithfield, VA;va.us258busaltsmi;

...But I also downvote this, as it would break the View Associated Routes feature.

Both the banner and abbrev fields are truncated to 3 characters in the DB.

I should add a datacheck for this.  I even already have a GitHub issue about the problem, so this is a good reminder for me to try to implement this before the semester rush hits.

https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/56
I favor allowing 6-character banners. CHM had support for this (check out the shield images).
Currently, the TM shield generator doesn't do banners for usausb, just a single letter suffix. Whether/when/how to change this is a topic for the Clinched Routes Highway Shields thread, but I think 6-character banners would be a Good Thing if we decided to move toward a more CHM-style presentation using the banner field in the future.

2-character banners: at least usaok & usaga use "Lp", and usaib has "BL" & "BS".
I'm unaware of any of these in a double-bannered route, but still think distinguishing between 2+3 (EG, "LpBus") & 3+2 (EG, "BusLp") banner values is a good idea.

How to split a 4+ character banner string into multiple single-banner enumerators? Can't just have a capital letter begin a new one, due to "BL" & "BS". Maybe when a capital letter is followed by lower case... Such a solution would not require changes to existing system CSV files.
Another idea is to have comma-separated values in the banner field, akin to how the AltRouteNames field is implemented now. This would require changes to system CSVs.
Just tossing ideas around; don't know how either of these would impact existing PHP/scripts/code in the Web/ repository.
I think the 6-character banner idea would be more of its own separate GitHub issue than the existing #56. Edit: Web #191 fits the bill.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 10:20:40 pm by yakra »

Offline mapmikey

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Re: NC: US17BusTrkEli
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2018, 04:28:48 pm »
The us258busAlt route should be deleted.  It is VA 258 ALT which is also in the HB.  It is erroneously posted as US 258 ALT (never been posted with Bus and ALT banners...only ALT) and has been posted as VA 258 ALT previously.

Although not problematic in the way this thread discusses, US 220 ALT Roanoke is also incorrect, despite its posting in the field.  It is VA 220 ALT.
Clinched:
I: 4 12 16 17 20 26 27 30 59 64 66 68 72 73 ew74 77 78 79 82 83 ew84 85 ew86 e88 97 99
US: 4 6N 9W 11E 11W 13 15 19W 21 44 46 48 58 72 92 113 117 123 130 158 163 176 178 192 206 209 211 219 220 221 222 258 264 276 290 311 319 322 340 360 378 401 ew422 501 521 522 601 701
PriSystems: VA, DE

Offline yakra

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Re: NC: US17BusTrkEli
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2018, 06:02:51 pm »
Quote
has been posted as VA 258 ALT previously
How recently, though? I don't see anything in GMSV in the last 10 years.

These routes are walking a tightrope between Sign-Os, unsigned routes, and US Routes... :(

Offline mapmikey

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Re: NC: US17BusTrkEli
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2018, 07:12:21 pm »
It is officially VA 258 ALT and always has been.  Not sure why it matters that it is erroneously posted.

It was posted as VA 258 ALT from both directions of VA 10: WB until btw 2003-07 and EB until btw 2007-09.


Froggie, 2003


Froggie, 2003
This one made it to 2007 GMSV
Clinched:
I: 4 12 16 17 20 26 27 30 59 64 66 68 72 73 ew74 77 78 79 82 83 ew84 85 ew86 e88 97 99
US: 4 6N 9W 11E 11W 13 15 19W 21 44 46 48 58 72 92 113 117 123 130 158 163 176 178 192 206 209 211 219 220 221 222 258 264 276 290 311 319 322 340 360 378 401 ew422 501 521 522 601 701
PriSystems: VA, DE

Offline si404

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Re: NC: US17BusTrkEli
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2018, 08:01:25 pm »
Italy has 'Racc' banners, which I abbreviate to Rac due to the cap.

There's a couple of double bannered routes in Italy, but they might not be signed like that.

Offline Jim

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Re: NC: US17BusTrkEli
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2018, 09:31:35 pm »
I don't think expanding the size of the banner field is hard at all.  It's a little more space in the DB, but in the big picture, it's minor.  Is 6 characters sufficient?  I only worry about unintended consequences.

Offline yakra

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Re: NC: US17BusTrkEli
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2018, 09:47:50 pm »
Is 6 characters sufficient?  I only worry about unintended consequences.
Think so, hope so, don't know for sure.
I'm going to reread through these threads and see what I see:
OH: Defiance Alternate Truck Route List Names
Field lengths in csv files and DB fields <- yeah yeah, right here!

Edit: What does LongFields have to say?
The former longest datum, "Business", was changed to "Bus". If the new max length is 6 characters, we may be all good.
I can't think of anything anywhere using 3 or more banners. Can anyone else?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 01:06:23 pm by yakra »

Offline yakra

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Re: NC: US17BusTrkEli
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 10:02:13 pm »
Not sure why it matters that it is erroneously posted.
Doesn't all that much, really.
I was worried about semi-unsigned routes, and those sticky "Does this belong in this system, or this system?" situations.
You know way more about what makes Virginia tick than I do, so I'll defer to your knowledge here.